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 Egypt, Libia, Syria Unrest 
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Post Egypt, Libia, Syria Unrest
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/ ... UW20110128

Once again a tin pot dictator is threatened by social unrest in the streets, seems to be spreading in the mideast/north africa.
Can't help but to wonder of the neocon changes in Iraq started this ball rolling?
Joe Biden says Egypt's Mubarak no dictator, he shouldn't step down... then they pull the plug on the internet! :lol: Yet another revolution poo pooed by this bunch.


Last edited by 2fisted on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:32 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
Joe Biden says Egypt's Mubarak no dictator, he shouldn't step down... then they pull the plug on the internet! :lol: Yet another revolution poo pooed by this bunch.


He also says Assange is a terrorist. Bah.

Wikileaks released piles of Egypt cables today:

Cairo cables index http://wikileaks.ch/origin/106_0.html?1

Egypt - Egyptian Military Succession Plans Told to US Embassy
Egypt - Evidence of torture and repression by Mubarak´s Police
Cable: "Torture and police brutality in Egypt are endemic and widespread"
Egypt: "Police will round up 40 to 50 suspects and hang them by their arms from the ceiling for weeks"
Cable: Egypt 'displeased' with US human rights views
Cable: Egypt detained Christian blogger for criticizing Islam
Cable: "thousands of Egyptian military officers trained by US"
"The Egyptian 'people blame America' now for their plight under Mubarak."
Cable: "Hamas will accept the 1967 border with Israel"
Cable: "Rogue Egyptian priests feed US adoption racket"
Cable: "Shin Bet talks Gaza economics..."
Cable: "10 Yemeni children were trafficked to Egypt for organ harvesting"
Cable: "A new round of political arrests..."
Cable: "Welcome to Egypt, Admiral... here's what's going on."
Cable: "Welcome to Egypt, FBI director...here's what's going on"
Cable: "police brutality continues to be a pervasive, daily occurrence in Egypt"
Cable: "Egypt's abuse of Emergency Laws"
Cable: "Mubarak's terror against writers, bloggers and journalists"
Egyption cable: "Military will ensure transfer of power..."
"Welcome to Washington, President Mubarack..."
"Welcome to Egypt, General Schwartz--here's what's really going on"
Mubarak private briefing for senator Lieberman
New cable on Egyption police brutality
Senator Kerry's secret Egypt briefing


Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:42 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
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Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:37 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Things are still shaking up in the mideast, In China too it seems.

I wonder if the Cubans will get into the game? Talk about a country that could use a lil' hope & change.


Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:12 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
never thought i'd agree with fisty.

SOMETHING must have frozen over.


oh.


wait.

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Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:19 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
thosquanta wrote:
never thought i'd agree with fisty.

SOMETHING must have frozen over.


oh.


wait.


Agree with him about what?

That the neo-cons are responsible?

Please. If anything it shows that Middle Easterners and North Africans would rather handle it themselves. Don't forget that we were NOT greeted as liberators.

As for poo-pooing of the Egyptian revolt, both sides did it. They're all, or were at first, simply scared shitless of losing Egypt's support of Israel.


Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
that cuba could use a regime change.

neo cons are only responsible for being assholes.

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Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
thosquanta wrote:
that cuba could use a regime change.

neo cons are only responsible for being assholes.


Oh. Well yeah. Being against neo-cons doesn't make us for commies.


Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:37 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Don't worry kidz, there is still room for Obama bashing. Again he acts with kid goves & blows opportunity to support the people challenging tyrants like Qudaffi & Amajinibla bla.

I think the real driving factors is that the masses are seeing 3 things & saying "fuck this shit".

1: Dubai. The poor of the mideast sees this sandy heap w/ golf courses & sky scrapers & wonder why they cant have the same thing.

2: Iraq. Yes its a rough start... but at least they are going some place.

3: China/India. Economy is booming in those countries due to captalism... they want a piece of that pie too.

Another words its $, not so much "Islamic Governance". Hell if the masses want to push thier Sharia laws" on the world, they can just move to London, France or Mpls?


Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:00 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
Another words its $, not so much "Islamic Governance". Hell if the masses want to push thier Sharia laws" on the world, they can just move to London, France or Mpls?


And you can just move into a fucking Walmart.


Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
Hell if the masses want to push thier Sharia laws" on the world, they can just move to London, France or Mpls?


A few wayward people, not even the bosses of their respective professions, committing certain actions does not constitute "imposing law" on anyone.


Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:08 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
claymation wrote:
And you can just move into a fucking Walmart.


I would, but they are big backers of the Obamacare disaster now. :lol:


Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:39 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Quote:
Gaddafi: Barakeh Obama is friend

Libyan leader praises US president: 'He is of Muslim descent, his policy should be supported, as he now leans towards peace'
Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi considers the US president a blessing to the Muslim world. In a speech published in London-based al-Hayat newspaper on Saturday, Gaddafi praised Barack Obama, called him a "friend" and said there is no longer any dispute between his country and the US.


Well, this explains it I guess. Can't say that I blame Barakeh for keeping his nose out of Libia's biz, gotta support what few "friends" we have left in the world.


Last edited by 2fisted on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:54 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
what few "friends" we have left in the world.


Yep, all thanks to the Bush administration.


Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Quote:
The rebels, armed with rocket launchers, anti-aircraft guns and tanks, called Wednesday for U.N.-backed air strikes on foreign mercenaries it said were fighting for Gaddafi.

Opposition activists called for a no-fly zone, echoing a demand by Libya's deputy U.N. envoy, who now opposes Gaddafi.

"Bring Bush! Make a no fly zone, bomb the planes," shouted soldier-turned-rebel Nasr Ali, referring to a no-fly zone imposed on Iraq in 1991 by then U.S. President George Bush.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110303/wl_ ... a_protests

Meanwhile our current man child pres dithers & votes.. absent. :lol:


Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:42 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
What's up with your constant repetition of fatass drug-addict Rush Limbaugh's subtly racist term "Man Child" ?

Why don't you just call him "boy"? I believe he's much more mature than either one of you and could easily kick both of your weak asses.

Why do you hate blacks and gays?


Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
I remember that you used to call W the "chimp". :lol:

The point is, the people struggling for freedom are asking for Bushes help, they know the community organizer is just talk.

Even the WI protesters (on both sides) know Obama just talks, never leads.


Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
argumentum ad hominim...

argumentum apraxium. (ok, that one i made up - argument from "psychic" knowlege - apparently fisty knows what both sides in madison are thinking)

2 fallacies and no facts. par for the course, fisty!

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Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
It's Wisconsin thinking, not just Madison. 8)


Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:42 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Fisty, you know nothing of WI other than what Fox shows you, such as Madison being graced by palm trees. This criminal governor lied and will be recalled along with his crony senators.

Chimpy, Tricky Dick, Slick Willie, all fine names with a sense of humor. "Man Child" is nothing but an inaccurate, mean-spirited racially charged slur coined by an ignorant drug-addled bigmouth.


Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:21 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
zom-zom wrote:
Chimpy, Tricky Dick, Slick Willie, all fine names with a sense of humor. "Man Child" is nothing but an inaccurate, mean-spirited racially charged slur coined by an ignorant drug-addled bigmouth.


Racialy charged? NOPE. Thats must be your mediamatters talking again z. I think the term is fitting myself, he still Blames Bush for everything! :lol:

I've been to Madtown often, there is an interesting club there called Club Inferno! They have various "Play" acts & lots of folks wearing rubbery things... EVEN!


Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:23 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Oh of course the "Urban Dictionary" is The Source for all definitions on the web.

The context of this slur is coming out of a known racist's mouth. Rush Limbaugh is a racist.

It's a not-so-subtle way of calling a black man "Boy". You can deny it all you like, the way you like to deny most truths.


Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:37 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
again, i HATE to side with fisty, but i always associated the term "man child" with adam sandler who, if i am not mistaken, is not black. the term is generally understood to mean a grown man who behaves like a child.

so, i don't think its racist to call obama a man child, merely, wholly inaccurate. bush, on the other hand, with his constant giggling and silly nicknames for reporters...

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Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
The context is what matters here. It was Limbaugh who "popularized" this. I don't recall anyone else calling Obama "Man Child" previously, and when Limbaugh says it, you know it's racially charged. If he could get away with calling him "boy", he would. This is the next best thing for him.


Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
this is also argumentum ad hominim....

so, nope.

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Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Logic, shmogic.


Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:26 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Actualy there are many talking heads that have called Obama imature, inexperienced, in over his head. ect... Man child fits just fine. Give up trying to protect your guys failings by linking it to some phantom racism thing. It smells of KOS desperation! :wink:

Anyhoo, lookin like full blown war in Libia. I bet there will be a major fight in tripoli soon.


Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:18 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Yep, just like chimpy with the talking heads.. he was the worst president ever. Everyone agrees.

Same old thing over and over again. Just glad we didn't get the crazy old guy and the idiot woman elected, we'd be doomed.


Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:57 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Hows that "smart power" policy working for ya?

[quote=Krauthammer]It began on Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's first Asia trip, when she publicly played down human rights concerns in China. The administration also cut aid for democracy promotion in Egypt by 50 percent. And cut civil society funds - money for precisely the organizations we now need to help Egyptian democracy - by 70 percent.

This new realism reached its apogee with Obama's reticence and tardiness in saying anything in support of the 2009 Green Revolution in Iran. On the contrary, Obama made clear that nuclear negotiations with the discredited and murderous regime (talks that a child could see would go nowhere) took precedence over the democratic revolutionaries in the street - to the point where demonstrators in Tehran chanted, "Obama, Obama, you are either with us or with them."[/quote]

At least the Neocons knew what they where doing, this current bunch is playing catch up.


Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
zom-zom wrote:
Yep, just like chimpy with the talking heads.. he was the worst president ever. Everyone agrees.


W gained congressional seats after his first 2nd & fourth years, he is currently higher in the polls than Bahrakah. The manchild got decimated after his first 2 years. (thx to the enlightened Tea Party folks!) 8)


Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:21 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Your level of crazy reached teabagger levels.. "Kadoos" as you would say. You have achieved Upper Level Crazy.

Just keep watching those palm trees swaying in the Wisconsin breeze on your comedy channel Fox News. Mmm.. mind-numbing.


Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Looks like a "no fly zone" may be implemented by your team zom... looks like we are ALL neocons now! BRAWWW HARRR! :lol:

Obama Even went golfing today!


Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
zom-zom wrote:
Your level of crazy reached teabagger levels.. "Kadoos" as you would say. You have achieved Upper Level Crazy.

Just keep watching those palm trees swaying in the Wisconsin breeze on your comedy channel Fox News. Mmm.. mind-numbing.



And yet, the one person on TV who makes the most sense is a guy on a network with the word "Comedy" in it

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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
DaveS wrote:
thosquanta wrote:
never thought i'd agree with fisty.

SOMETHING must have frozen over.


oh.


wait.


Agree with him about what?

That the neo-cons are responsible?

Please. If anything it shows that Middle Easterners and North Africans would rather handle it themselves. Don't forget that we were NOT greeted as liberators.

As for poo-pooing of the Egyptian revolt, both sides did it. They're all, or were at first, simply scared shitless of losing Egypt's support of Israel.



Indeed. Too many politicians on both sides were standing by Israel, whose PM said that North African Democracy would be create an unstable Arab World. Hannity had the shriveled up balls to ask people to come up with one violent revolution in history that brought about a good government... why does Hannity hate America?

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Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:57 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
It began on Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's first Asia trip, when she publicly played down human rights concerns in China. The administration also cut aid for democracy promotion in Egypt by 50 percent. And cut civil society funds - money for precisely the organizations we now need to help Egyptian democracy - by 70 percent.


So you TeaTards want spending cuts but not <b>foreign aid????</b> WTF? $30 Billion (note the B) was given over the past 30 years to Mubarak's regime! Make up your puny minds already!

Foreign workers are now being barricaded in Libya and FORCED back to work by pro-Ghadafi forces and you DON'T want to step in? What do you want to do? throw billions at them instead?

The TP agenda is clearly inept and ineffective. They have guaranteed Obama's re-election with their inefficacious squandering of tax payer time and money.

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Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:06 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
zom-zom wrote:
Yep, just like chimpy with the talking heads.. he was the worst president ever. Everyone agrees.


W gained congressional seats after his first 2nd & fourth years, he is currently higher in the polls than Bahrakah. The manchild got decimated after his first 2 years. (thx to the enlightened Tea Party folks!) 8)


Reagan lost a shitload of seats during his second year. He also lost his mind by his fifth, but that's neither here nor there for the party that elected Dubba, a <b>bankrupted</b> oilman.

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Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:11 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Long Pig wrote:
So you TeaTards want spending cuts but not <b>foreign aid????</b> WTF? $30 Billion (note the B) was given over the past 30 years to Mubarak's regime! Make up your puny minds already!

Foreign workers are now being barricaded in Libya and FORCED back to work by pro-Ghadafi forces and you DON'T want to step in? What do you want to do? throw billions at them instead?

The TP agenda is clearly inept and ineffective. They have guaranteed Obama's re-election with their inefficacious squandering of tax payer time and money.


^^^^ :lol: we are all neocons now eh LP! Neocon, isolationist whatever. The one thing we know now is that our country currently fails to lead the freedom march going on in the world:
SARKOZY FILLS LEADERSHIP VOID ON LIBYA
'AIR STRIKES'

http://www.france24.com/en/20110310-Fra ... assy-Libya

If only Joe the Plumber was in charge. :(


Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:36 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
Long Pig wrote:
^^^^ :lol: we are all neocons now eh LP! Neocon, isolationist whatever.


Neocons are not isolationist.


Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
DaveS wrote:
2fisted wrote:
Long Pig wrote:
^^^^ :lol: we are all neocons now eh LP! Neocon, isolationist whatever.


Neocons are not isolationist.


However, they do prefer occupying other countries instead of having them poison ours

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Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

Image
MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger...


Image


Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:27 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
It's all in the context, Fisty. 9-11 didn't happen because of Iraq, but Quaddafi IS killing his own people.


Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:30 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Yeah, and the main difference: There was no rebel force in Iraq at the time that was about to be slaughtered and asking for help.

In other words, in Iraq there were no "calls of a threatened people".

There is in Libya.


Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:46 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Saddam Hussain was killing his own people, there was a rebel force in Iraq.

Hey, I'm with you guys! BOMBS AWAY!

I just wonder if Obama can fly his own jet onto an aircraft carrier??! :lol:


Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:03 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Our point is that it's not the same because, as Dave S. said, there wasn't a cry for assistance from the Iraqis. Was Saddam a murderous bastard? Yes, but he probably wasn't striking civilians struggling for democracy with fighter jet missles. Get some perspective, fool.


Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:27 am
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
Saddam Hussain was killing his own people, there was a rebel force in Iraq.

Hey, I'm with you guys! BOMBS AWAY!

I just wonder if Obama can fly his own jet onto an aircraft carrier??! :lol:


He wasn't and there wasn't <i>at the time that we attacked</i>. There had been back in the 90s, but it had settled down by 2003. And besides, no one there asked for our intervention.

Aside from that, there was also no global consensus back then, unlike now for Libya.


Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
There are cries for assistance everywhere all over the world all the time.

Saddam used gas on his own people more than once, he murdered 30,000 of his own soon after the first gulf war.

Remember the Kurds?


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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
DaveS wrote:
He wasn't and there wasn't <i>at the time that we attacked</i>. There had been back in the 90s, but it had settled down by 2003. And besides, no one there asked for our intervention.

Aside from that, there was also no global consensus back then, unlike now for Libya.


W administration had broad international support for the Iraq war in 2003. One difference between the Iraq war and the present actions against Libya is that President Bush had explicit Congressional authorization for military action in 2003. Obama did not seek any Congressional authorization or support for whatever actions may take place in connection with Libya.

I hope Obama is getting more rooms ready at Gitmo! :lol:


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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
DaveS wrote:
He wasn't and there wasn't <i>at the time that we attacked</i>. There had been back in the 90s, but it had settled down by 2003. And besides, no one there asked for our intervention.

Aside from that, there was also no global consensus back then, unlike now for Libya.


W administration had broad international support for the Iraq war in 2003. One difference between the Iraq war and the present actions against Libya is that President Bush had explicit Congressional authorization for military action in 2003. Obama did not seek any Congressional authorization or support for whatever actions may take place in connection with Libya.

I hope Obama is getting more rooms ready at Gitmo! :lol:


He did not have broad international support, his action was based on a false premise (remember the whole existence of WMDs thing?) and the Congressional authorizatio he has was very vaugely worded.


Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:09 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
2fisted wrote:
There are cries for assistance everywhere all over the world all the time.

Saddam used gas on his own people more than once, he murdered 30,000 of his own soon after the first gulf war.

Remember the Kurds?


Like I said, that was back in the 90s. The event was over, and there was no group in 2003 fighting or asking for help at all.


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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
I think the other difference is that the people of Lybia seemed to have a chance for a while
All they need is a level playing field

There was no such situation in Iraq

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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
DaveS wrote:
2fisted wrote:
There are cries for assistance everywhere all over the world all the time.

Saddam used gas on his own people more than once, he murdered 30,000 of his own soon after the first gulf war.

Remember the Kurds?


Like I said, that was back in the 90s. The event was over, and there was no group in 2003 fighting or asking for help at all.


Quote:
Kurds reluctant to help oust Hussein / Leaders unwilling to risk losses again for U.S. prioritiesJuly 08, 2002|By John F. Burns, New York Times


2002-07-08 04:00:00 PST Erbil, Iraq -- As the United States considers ways of accomplishing President Bush's call for an end to Saddam Hussein's rule in Iraq, Washington's goal of a "regime change" in Baghdad is running into strong reservations from Iraqi Kurdish leaders, who would be crucial allies in any military campaign.

These leaders, interviewed in their strongholds across northern Iraq in the last week, have said flatly they would be reluctant to join U.S. military operations that put Kurds at risk of an onslaught by Iraqi troops of the kind they suffered after the Persian Gulf War in 1991. A Kurdish uprising then that was encouraged by the first President Bush was brutally suppressed by Hussein, and U.S. forces failed to intervene as thousands of Kurds were killed.

Also this: Libya has in its possession 9.5 metric tons of mustard gas

Anyhoo, I'm excited to see what the mission will be this time.
Kill Quadffi? Regime change? Democracy???? We will prolly need thousands of GROUND TROOPS to make sure our humanitarian mission is successfull! Go get em Barakah!


Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Rockula! wrote:
I think the other difference is that the people of Lybia seemed to have a chance for a while
All they need is a level playing field

There was no such situation in Iraq


There did indeed seem to be a chance, but Obama was too busey talking about basketball, playing golf & worrying about bullies in 3rd grade to take any action. With a little extra "push" at the right time he could have sealed Quadaffies fate. Now who knows?

I remember lots of chearing in the streets after Saddam was knocked out. Then Al queda moved in, witch is prolly happening now in Lybia as we speak.

It's complicated!


Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:02 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
It seems that you are too busy with your immediate knee jerk hatred of anything that doesn't have an "R" in front of it to see that maybe Obama wanted to stay the fuck out of it until he was sure that there was no way for the rebellion to succeed on it's own
I would much rather he do that than blindly force his way into the situation like his predecessor

Which situation is more likely to end up with us having a helpless country on our hands
Deposing a dictator or helping the people depose him themselves?

I also think it is funny how your Con masters have been questioning other people's right to handle new freedom by insinuating that they are too simple
Are they saying that those people are inferior because they can't handle the responsibility of freedom?
Or is it that you people can't stand to see anyone achieve freedom without the US dictating what kind of freedom they can have?

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Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
DaveS wrote:
Yeah, and the main difference: There was no rebel force in Iraq at the time that was about to be slaughtered and asking for help.

In other words, in Iraq there were no "calls of a threatened people".

There is in Libya.
Why does that matter? Isn't meddling in internal affairs of other countries bad either way?

Rockula! wrote:
Or is it that you people can't stand to see anyone achieve freedom without the US dictating what kind of freedom they can have?
If people want freedom without US having a say in it they really shouldn't ask for US help. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

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Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
JPaganel wrote:
Why does that matter? Isn't meddling in internal affairs of other countries bad either way?


Not when there's a notable faction requesting our presence.

I suppose you think it was wrong for the French to help the US revolutionaries too?


JPaganel wrote:
If people want freedom without US having a say in it they really shouldn't ask for US help. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.


Perhaps the meaning of the word "freedom" escapes you?


Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:54 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
Presidential candidate Barack Obama, December 2007:

Quote:
The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.


hmmm... well, now that he is Prez I can understand how he doesn't need to be bothered by such tivialities.


Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:30 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
DaveS wrote:
Not when there's a notable faction requesting our presence.

What makes a faction notable? Why this faction and not some other faction?

DaveS wrote:
I suppose you think it was wrong for the French to help the US revolutionaries too?
Were I British, I would certainly think so. The French did it just to piss off the Brits.

DaveS wrote:
Perhaps the meaning of the word "freedom" escapes you?
On the contrary. I am quite familiar with several meanings on a rather practical level. You seem to be using the meaning closest to "buy one, get one free". True freedom is earned.


Mostly, I have to wonder if we don't have better things to do than to screw around in yet another sandbox. I have no special love for Kaddafi, he is an asshole and probably deserves whatever he is going to get, but I don't see why US has to be involved.

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Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
JPaganel wrote:
What makes a faction notable? Why this faction and not some other faction?


The fact that they were at one point able to control whole cities makes them notable enough, and combined with the fact that their goals align with ours, that legitimizes our assistance of such a group.

JPaganel wrote:
Were I British, I would certainly think so. The French did it just to piss off the Brits.


What kindof answer is that? You're not British, you're American, and you owe your country's entire existence, as well as all the positive (and negative) ideology and contributions that the US has made over the years, to an intervention of one country into the internal affairs of another.


JPaganel wrote:
On the contrary. I am quite familiar with several meanings on a rather practical level. You seem to be using the meaning closest to "buy one, get one free". True freedom is earned.


Uh, no. I'm using it in the sense of political freedom, which refers to the ability of people to control their own destiny. Such an idea is antithetical to someone else telling them how to do it.

And true freedom does not necessarily have to be "earned". It may work better when a group of people fights for it, but there is no logical connection between the status of a people as free or not free and the way in which it was historically obtained.

Such "earning" doesn't last more than a generation anyway; none of us in the US in 2011 did any more to "earn" the freedom than the North Koreans are doing (or failing to do) right now.


Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
JPaganel wrote:
Mostly, I have to wonder if we don't have better things to do than to screw around in yet another sandbox. I have no special love for Kaddafi, he is an asshole and probably deserves whatever he is going to get, but I don't see why US has to be involved.


Fair enough, we do seem to pick our battles rather arbitrarily in this regard. But for one thing, we're not the only ones involved, and for another, I for one was particularly saddened when the rebels were suddenly and so cruelly squashed down, after it was fairly clear that they were the voice of a large part of the people. I think they need a champion.


Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Egypt Unrest
DaveS wrote:
I think they need a champion.


They have one Dave, they have one...

Image
:P Sry, couldn't resist!

Quote:
Aside from that, there was also no global consensus back then, unlike now for Libya.


Coalition Forces / Iraq vs. Libya

Coalition Countries - Iraq - 2003

Afghanistan,
Albania
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan

[Source: US State Department]

Coalition - Libya - 2011

United States
France
United Kingdom
Italy
Canada
Belgium
Denmark
Norway
Qatar
Spain
Greece
Germany
Poland
Jordan
Morocco
United Arab Emirate

Not that it matters anyway, we just realy want their SWEET SWEET CRUDE OIL!


Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:31 am
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