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 Climategate 
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Post Climategate
One thing about DTC is most folks around here understood that Global Warming was based on junk science, so climate change never was a big topic. But we can take pride that the fact we knew all along somthing smelled fishy:

Quote:
If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW. The conspiracy behind the Anthropogenic Global Warming myth (aka AGW; aka ManBearPig) has been suddenly, brutally and quite deliciously exposed after a hacker broke into the computers at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit (aka Hadley CRU) and released 61 megabites of confidential files onto the internet. (Hat tip: Watts Up With That)

When you read some of those files – including 1079 emails and 72 documents – you realise just why the boffins at Hadley CRU might have preferred to keep them confidential. As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be “the greatest in modern science”. These alleged emails – supposedly exchanged by some of the most prominent scientists pushing AGW theory – suggest:

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.


This is good news! Now we can drop Kyoto & Cap & Trade
ect... our economy has a chance after all.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/james ... l-warming/


Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:15 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
I'm sometimes surprised that your autonomic reflexes keep going. No one believes this shit.

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Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
i never understood why it is now xian policy to deny climate change in some sort of "american right to pollute" kinda way.

can't we just use argument from authority and assume i'm right?

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Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
:lol:

Quote:
No one believes this shit.
(drok... running in circles)" The world is flat! The world is flat! "


Thanks to capitalism, America leads the world with cleaner industries. (ie: clean coal)
Compare our polution levels to China, Russia, India ect... we can show them how it's done. 8)


Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
You obviously haven't been paying attention. America is no longer an industrial giant. We buy all of our manufactured goods from the world's leading polluters. I don't know why you think I'm a "flat earther". I'm more of a "the sky is falling" type. But again, I realize you could be outsmarted by a pigeon, so there you go. There is no such thing as "clean coal".

Hey 2fisted, I have a question for you:

Why is it that none of the other conservatives on this board ever back you up?

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Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:10 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
drok wrote:
Hey 2fisted, I have a question for you:

Why is it that none of the other conservatives on this board ever back you up?



Conservative does not equal stupid! ;)

Look, both views are extreme really. Data bears out that warming does exist, although the severity is disputed, but the point that gets argued too often is whether or not this warming trend is caused by man or simply part of the natural warming/cooling cycles of the earth which have been going on for ages.

I personally believe the earth will warm and cool as it sees fit and I don't think we affect that nearly as much as is suggested. The real issue to me is pollution- and NOT because it's supposedly causing warming. It makes simple sense to me to be stewards of our planet and take care of our surroundings, and I don't need a scare tactic like global warming to convince me to be more eco-friendly. I think both sides of the argument are missing the point far too often.

~€ther~

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Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:49 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Ether wrote:
I personally believe


always a valuable scientific tool.

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Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Quote:
He is the author of several novels and two non-fiction books, How to be Right: The Essential Guide to Making Lefty Liberals History, and Welcome to Obamaland: I Have Seen Your Future and It Doesn't Work.


Yeah, he sounds like an un-biased scientific mind. Fuckin' idiot tea-bag.
(Not teabagger, though he's probably sympathetic to those cretins.)


Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:27 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
http://www.grist.org/article/there-is-no-consensus/


Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:49 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Quote:
Hey 2fisted, I have a question for you:

Why is it that none of the other conservatives on this board ever back you up?

I will answer your question w/ a question drok:
Why doesn't anyone back you up when you get tossed out of a bar? :lol:

Conservatives don't worry about how many "myspace frenz" they have Big d.

Anyhoo, nice to see the new home for commies (the Green Movement) get ripped wide open and exposed as a fraud that it is.

More facts for zommers:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... l-cooling/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ns_opinion


Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:59 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Y'know, those big ol' icebergs -- that people assume have been there forever and are somehow vital to the Earth's continued existence -- have dinosaur fossils and OIL under them.

If you can figure out how all that snow and ice magically transformed into OIL, you can solve the whole energy crisis!


Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:08 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
The OP is retarded.

I'm wiith Ether here - GW or not, shitting where we live isn't a great idea. I also think that most of the proposed solutions are lacking in one way or another and that their effectiveness is overstated.

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Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:36 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
Quote:
I will answer your question w/ a question drok:
Why doesn't anyone back you up when you get tossed out of a bar? :lol:


You know, I usually keep my distance from calling you an outright dick but you are a fucking outright dick
And a limp one too since you cannot use anything remotely close to a coherant argument to back up your insane ideology
Then you resort to off topic personal attacks

fucking dick

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Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:21 am
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Post Re: Climategate
Rockula! wrote:
You know, I usually keep my distance from calling you an outright dick but you are a fucking outright dick
And a limp one too since you cannot use anything remotely close to a coherant argument to back up your insane ideology
Then you resort to off topic personal attacks
fucking dick

I was going to post a logical response, but then, like droks attack I figgered it's all just to stray off topic (again). Thee ol' "attack the messenger" trick.

The above quote is so full of hypocricy I'm not sure if you are joking? Anyhoo, don't be afraid to share your thoughts on global warming.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:29 am
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Post Re: Climategate
actually John, my original question was a legitimate rhetorical device, while your question has nothing to do with anything. It's also a lie. Plenty of people backed me me up, and a couple of people actually told the guy off. But you are pretty damn good at lying.

The Green Party are not "Commies".

"Climategate" is a few sentences being taken out of context by journalists who with an agenda.

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Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:16 am
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Post Re: Climategate
Keep trying to personalize the topic, all the words in the world you throw at this one will not hide the truth.

Investigations are on the way, some of those "scientists" should do time for fraud:

Code:
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2188feb3-802a-23ad-4de4-3fbc0a92e126&Issue_id


Quote:
Melanie Morgan: So what will you be calling for an investigation of?

Senator Inhofe: On the IPCC and on the United Nations on the way that they cooked the science to make this thing look as if the science was settled, when all the time of course we knew it was not.

Jed Babbin: Should somebody stop further spending on this until we get this investigation, Senator?

Senator Inhofe: Well, I don’t know how you do that, though, ‘cause we’re not the ones that are calling the shots. The interesting part of this is it’s happening right before Copenhagen. And, so, the timing couldn’t be better. Whoever is on the ball in Great Britain, their time was good.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:40 am
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Post Re: Climategate
pretty sure the last time congress tried to stick their noses into science and math they came up with "pi is exactly 3."

the "scientists" that SHOULD be prosecuted for fraud (and some have been) are the ones fisty's guys back - the creationists. or, sorry "intelligent design therorists," because, like they say, it has nooooothing to do with creationism. THESE are the "scientists" that fisty has backing his 'no such thing as human impact to environment" approach.

seriously, lets just go with argument from authority. fisty seems to like that approach.

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Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Well, fisty's "team" are the cretins who believe that we just need to use up stuff before Jesus' imminent return.

The narrow-minded idiots that figure that Man has "domain" over everything and is just and right to simply use up shit with no regard to anything else but his own needs of golf-courses, luxury automobiles, ugly McMansions and Viagra.

I was behind a huge-ass truck on the way home from work yesterday, it had a "Creation Museum" license-plate holder that also said "Prepare to Believe!" Plus the usual anti-Obama, McCain/Palin stickers.

That's fisty's people. Stupid, arrogant, thoughtless and proud of it.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
zom-zom wrote:
...it had a "Creation Museum" license-plate holder...
Man, I want to visit that someday. But I'm pretty sure I would be kicked out for the uncontrollable raucous laughter long before I got to see most of it.

||EDIT: Oh snap, I was trying to find out where it was located and found THIS. Almost like being there!


Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Fisty believes this! Fisty believes that!

Fisty believes in science & I knew that there was somthing fishy about the global warming DOOM sayers. Now it's a proven fact they are making shit up & calling it hard science.

Busted!

Remember... it takes faith to believe in Global Warming. 8)

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Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Fisty still believes in preachers, liars, businessmen and Michelle Bachmann over say, the people that actually study things like science.

That's what Fisty believes. He does not believe in science unless it conforms to what his political beliefs are. A science of convenience.

That's what Fisty believes. :lol:

And here you go, do some reading. This negates all your crazy-guy theories about the unfortunately stupidly-named "climategate":
Quote:
The SwiftHack Scandal: What You Need to Know
This entry was posted by Josh Wednesday, 25 November, 2009
First of all, this story should never have been called ClimateGate. Given the similarities between this smear job and the Swift Boat attacks on Senator John Kerry, SwiftHack is a far more appropriate name.

I’ve attempted to cover the major points of interest in this story. Consider this post a perpetual work in progress. It will be continually updated. Please leave appropriate links and angles I’m missing in the comments.

For your convenience, the following 6 points each links to the corresponding section of this post:

The scientific consensus on climate change remains strong.
The impacts of catastrophic climate change continue to rear their ugly head.
Hacking into private computer files is illegal.
All of the emails were taken out of context.
The story is being pushed by far-right conspiracy theorists.
Scientists are human beings and they talk frankly amongst themselves.

1. The scientific consensus that humans are responsible for climate change — and that we must stabilize concentrations of atmospheric greenhouse gases at 350 parts per million — remains overwhelming. This latest cybercrime and the private emails it revealed do nothing whatsoever to change that.

In the Copenhagen Diagnosis, a report released on Tuesday, dozens of leading climate scientists came to the following conclusions:

Recent global temperatures demonstrate human-based warming: Over the past 25 years temperatures have increased at a rate of 0.190C per decade, in every good agreement with predictions based on greenhouse gas increases. Even over the past ten years, despite a decrease in solar forcing, the trend continues to be one of warming. Natural, short- term fluctuations are occurring as usual but there have been no significant changes in the underlying warming trend.

Acceleration of melting of ice-sheets, glaciers and ice-caps: A wide array of satellite and ice measurements now demonstrate beyond doubt that both the Greenland and Antarctic ice-sheets are losing mass at an increasing rate. Melting of glaciers and ice-caps in other parts of the world has also accelerated since 1990.

Rapid Arctic sea-ice decline: Summer-time melting of Arctic sea-ice has accelerated far beyond the expectations of climate models. This area of sea-ice melt during 2007-2009 was about 40% greater than the average prediction from IPCC AR4 climate models.

Current sea-level rise underestimates: Satellites show great global average sea-level rise (3.4 mm/yr over the past 15 years) to be 80% above past IPCC predictions. This acceleration in sea-level rise is consistent with a doubling in contribution from melting of glaciers, ice caps and the Greenland and West-Antarctic ice-sheets.

This is in line with the most recent assessment from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which in 2007 declared that global warming is unequivical and that human behavior is ‘very likely’ the key driver.

For a more comprehensive look at the scientific consensus on climate change, visit this Union of Concerned Scientists resource page.

Several blogs have made variations of this point.

Chris Mooney at the Intersection observes that these emails don’t actually imply anything substantive about climate science:

Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that all of the worst and most damning interpretations of these exposed emails are accurate. I don’t think this is remotely true, but let’s assume it.

Even if this is the case, it does not prove the following:

1) The scientists whose emails have been revealed are representative of or somehow a proxy for every other climate scientist on the planet.

2) The studies that have been called into questions based on the emails (e.g., that old chestnut the “hockey stick”) are somehow the foundations of our concern about global warming, and those concerns stand or fall based on those studies.

Neither one of these is true, which is why I can say confidently that “ClimateGate” is overblown–and which is why I’ve never been impressed by systematic attacks on the “hockey stick.” Even if that study falls, we still have global warming on our hands, and it’s still human caused.

Physicist Spencer Wearth notes that this is part of a broader trend, in which rather than dealing with uncertainties climate scientists are increasingly forced to respond to criticisms leveled at established science, criticisms which are largely based on ignorance:

Back around 2000 leading climate scientists talked to each other mostly about their science–debating one another’s data and analysis and negotiating travel, collaboration and other administration–and a little bit about policy. As time passed they have had to spend more and more of their time answering criticism of the scientific results already established, criticism mostly based on ignorance, fallacious reasoning, and even deliberately deceptive claims. Still more recently they have had to spend far too much of their time defending their personal reputations against ignorant or slanderous attacks.

Nate Silver points out that, in the most controversial email, the scientist in question was not, as deniers have been screaming, attempting to manipulate the data:

But let’s be clear: Jones is talking to his colleagues about making a prettier picture out of his data, and not about manipulating the data itself. Again, I’m not trying to excuse what he did — we make a lot of charts here and 538 and make every effort to ensure that they fairly and accurately reflect the underlying data (in addition to being aesthetically appealing.) I wish everybody would abide by that standard.

Still: I don’t know how you get from some scientist having sexed up a graph in East Anglia ten years ago to The Final Nail In The Coffin of Anthropogenic Global Warming. Anyone who comes to that connection has more screws loose than the Space Shuttle Challenger. And yet that’s literally what some of these bloggers are saying!

Incidentally, 2009 is shaping up to be the 5th warmist year on record.

2. Physics doesn’t care about hacked emails and conspiracy theories. The impacts of catastrophic climate change continue to rear their ugly head.

The impacts of climate change are not limited to computer models and projections. Consider the following domestic examples from recent weeks:

“2009 continues to climb up the rainiest-years-ever chart” in Illinois. This year’s rainfall in Peoria of 49.34 inches — 50 percent above normal — has already exceeded the total of 2008, itself 25 percent above normal. With only six more inches of precipitation, 2009 will break the record rainfall set in 1990.

Similarly, the September 21st flood in Atlanta, Georgia “was worse than what’s statistically projected to happen once every 100 years — even worse than every 500 years.” It was “extremely rare”, “epic” and so “stunning”, the U.S. Geological Survey says the “flood has defied its attempts to define it.”

Meanwhile, internationally, the United Kingdom is experiencing 1,000 year floods, Australia is being ravaged by a record heat wave and uncontrollable wildfires and arctic sea ice reached record lows just last week.

Matt Dernoga has more along these lines:

A few e-mails of out thousands sent by a few scientists out of thousands taken out of context by global warming deniers does not come within a light year of collapsing all of the scientific research, data, and current events that point to a warming planet caused by greenhouse gas emissions. It’s why record highs of outnumbered record lows by an ever increasing ratio, which reached 2:1 in the last decade. It’s why NASA recently reported the hottest June to October on record. It’s why every each decade is considerably hotter than the last, and why ocean surface temperatures are the warmest on record. It’s why declassified US spy satellites show the impact of warming on our ice caps, and East Antarctica is losing ice mass. Increased wildfires and pine bark beetles moving North. Australia being pushed to the breaking point by drought. That’s all happening now.

Alex Steffen at WorldChanging rightly notes that the real scandal is that all of this serves as a distraction from the very real challenge of dealing with climate change.

3. Hacking into private computer files is illegal. Posting their contents publicly is highly unethical. The entire process is an intentional effort to intimidate scientists.

I’m not up-to-date on British law, but the hack was at bare minimum a violation of the Computer Misuse Act of 1990. I’m sure there are newer laws on the books, but suffice it to say, hacking a University computer for private emails and data is illegal and unethical. The University of East Anglia certainly considers it illegal, and a criminal investigation is underway.

Perhaps more importantly, this is an intentional attempt to interfere with the efforts of scientists doing important work. Raymond T. Pierrehumbert, writing at Dot Earth, explains:

this is a criminal act of vandalism and of harassment of a group of scientists that are only going about their business doing science. It represents a whole new escalation in the war on climate scientists who are only trying to get at the truth. Think — this was a very concerted and sophisticated hacker attack.



I don’t think Jones’ emails had any personally compromising data in them, but that was just luck; this illegal act of cyber-terrorism against a climate scientist (and I don’t think that’s too strong a word) is ominous and frightening. What next? Deliberate monkeying with data on servers? Insertion of bugs into climate models? Or at the next level, since the forces of darkness have moved to illegal operations, will we all have to get bodyguards to do climate science?

Kevin Grandia is trying to track the guilty party down. He notes that, given the files that were included, the culprit was someone who knew exactly what they were looking for:

The folder of information contains over 3,800 separate files and it is clear that someone has taken a lot of time to pull together what they thought would be the most damaging. This is not the work of a hacker, unless that hacker is extremely well-versed in climate science, and specifically the conspiracy theories of the climate denial movement.

This package of stolen data and emails would have taken hundreds of hours to compile and someone out there knows exactly how all this went down.

Anyone ethically challenged enough to hack into private files or distribute their contents publicly is likely to have also nefariously edited the files.

4. The emails in question were taken out of context, and they don’t mean what deniers claim they mean.

Out of thousands and thousands of emails that were hacked, the climate change denying conspiracy theorists have only managed to identify a few that they consider to be incriminating. The supposedly incriminating emails are in fact, at worst, merely embarrassing.

One of the scientists over at RealClimate explains:

More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords.

One of the gotcha emails, which has generated the ‘hide the decline’, does not mean what deniers are claiming:

No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

This RealClimate post explains the context behind some of the other supposedly controversial emails.

Phil Jones, director of the Climate Research Unit, notes that an email of his has been taken completely out of context.

Brian Angliss at Scholars and Rogues explains that some of this can be chalked up to how scientists talk:

I work in electrical engineering where I use words and phrases that, taken out of context, could be misinterpreted as nefarious by people who are ignorant of the context or who have an axe to grind. For example, I regularly talk about “fiddling with” or “twiddling” the data, “faking out” something, “messing around with” testing, and so on. In the first case, I’m analyzing the data to see if I can make it make sense or if I can extract the signal from the noise. In the second case, I’m often forced to force a piece of electronics into a specific mode manually so I can test it and verify some other function, or I use the phrase to provide artificial test data for calibration and/or verification that my electronics are working correctly. And in the third case, it usually involves trying to deduce whether a problem is caused by the electronic board I;m testing or by the equipment that is doing the testing.

For a technical discussion of the true meaning of the ‘hide the decline’ email, see this post at Skeptical Science.

Greenfyre made a similar point here.

Greenfyre also notes:

The edited bits we are getting can sound bad, but the actually say absolutely nothing. Stripped of context they could suggest all kinds of unethical behaviour … or nothing at all.

As I pointed out above, it is actually pretty incredible that out of thousands of emails the conspiracy theorists were only able to identify a few they consider to be damning.

Kevin Grandia wonders what would be uncovered if thousands of emails from the Conservative Enterprise Institute or Exxon Mobile were released in a similar manner:

Think for a millisecond about how juicy the news might be if someone hacked the CEI computer, finding a way to track funding and listening in on the conversations that have occurred between Ebells and his collaborators at Exxon, Ford and the Bush Whitehouse.

Hand over, say, six months of email communications beginning in 2003 around the time the Whitehouse asked you to sue it (yes, the Whitehouse asked you to sue the Whitehouse) to help block climate legislation. Then we’ll have a serious talk about who’s credible.

Kevin’s colleague at DeSmogBlog, Richard Littlemore, adds:

As a stunning amount of email traffic on this issue currently seems to be coming from uberDenier Marc Morano, why doesn’t the former aide to Okalahoma Senator and Republican Denier-in-Chief James Inhofe volunteer to share his correspondence?

Kevin suggested a six-month supply from CEI. I reckon the last six days from Morano might significantly advance the question of who’s credible on this issue. It might even show who hacked Hadley.

5. This story is being pushed by the exact same crazies who have been behind many other conspiracy theories and blatantly false smear campaigns.

Quickly moving through the right-wing propaganda network, this story immediately popped up in all of the familiar spots: industry-funded conservative think tanks, conservative and global warming denier blogs, talk radio blowhards, the Drudge Report and Glenn Beck / Fox News. When all of these folks latch onto a story with such force, it is a good indication that the story is false (see: the Van Jones smearing and the $1761 clean energy bill lie).

Brad Johnson at The Wonk Room has a good early roundup of denier reactions.

Marc Morano, who has been leading the charge, was the originator of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth smear campaign against John Kerry. His site, Climate Depot, has been the hub of activity around the hacked emails.

This excellent post at ClimateDenial.org explains:

The coordinator of climatedepot.com is Marc Morano, a libertarian right self publicist and former aid to the outspoken denier Senator Inhofe, who has been seeking to become a kingpin in the climate denial industry. Marc Morano is not new to this kind of dirty fighting. According to the investigative site Source Watch, Morano, whilst working as a journalist for the right wing Cybercast News Service, was the first source in May 2004 of the smear campaign against John Kerry that later became known the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Although different in context and content, there are marked similarities between the Swift Boat campaign and the hacking of the UEA e-mails. Both were sophisticated strategies to undermine trust. Both identified trust and integrity as a major strength of the opponent and then played carefully chosen story lines to undermine them. At the very least the UEA e-mail campaign is an application of dirty political tactics to climate change campaigning.

Here are some of the other crazed conspiracy theorists who are leading the efforts to push this story:

Rabid conspiracy theorist Glenn Beck is all over this story.

Leader of the Republican party and certifiable nutjob Rush Limbaugh is claiming that this proves global warming is ‘made up.’

Matt Drudge, as of November 25th, was pushing the story with the following headlines at the top of his site:



Senator Inhofe, the most laughed at person in the United States Senate, has been huffing and puffing about this all week. He is now preparing an investigation and threatening scientists and Federal agencies. Taylor Marsh has more on Inhofe’s crazy antics and his role in all of this.

Congressman Darrell Issa, who was largely responsible for the smear campaign against Acorn, is now trying to pin this ’scandal’ on White House Science Advisor John Holdren. For his part, Holdren tells Issa and other deniers to bring it on:

“I’m happy to stand by my contribution to this exchange. I think anybody who reads what I wrote in its entirety will find it a serious and balanced treatment of the question of ‘burden of proof’ in situations where science germane to public policy is in dispute.”

Other crazies who are pushing this include Superfreak Stephen Dubner and Senator David Vitter.

A. Siegel has more on how all of this is a nefarious conspiracy.

6. Scientists are human beings and they talk frankly amongst themselves.

Peter Frumhoff of the Union of Concerned Scientists explains:

Climate science contrarians are using the release of e-mails from several top scientists to attack climate science. Unfortunately for these conspiracy theorists, what the e-mails show are simply scientists at work, grappling with key issues, and displaying the full range of emotions and motivations characteristic of any urgent endeavor. Any suggestions that these e-mails will affect public and policymakers’ understanding of climate science give far too much credence to blog chatter and boastful spin from groups opposed to addressing climate change.

“We should keep in mind that our understanding of climate science is based not on private correspondence, but on the rigorous accumulation, testing and synthesis of knowledge often represented in the dry and factual prose of peer-reviewed literature. The scientific community is united in calling on U.S. policymakers to recognize that emissions of heat-trapping gases must be dramatically reduced if we are to avoid the worst consequences of human-induced climate change.

Chris Mooney adds:

Global warming deniers are having a field day, because in some of the emails, the scientists are acting like, you know, people. They are also acting like scientists under fire, which is what they were and are.



Of course, none of this is at all relevant to the climate issue today. It’s a nasty, ugly sideshow. The science of climate change doesn’t stand or fall based upon what a few scientists said in emails they always thought would remain private.

Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing explains further:

A huge amount of email from the East Anglia Climate Research Unit was hacked and released onto the web, causing much rejoicing from the climate change denialists. They read through the corpus of email and found that the scientists working on climate change often have substantive disagreements with one another, which they debate vigorously in email, and cited this as evidence of a conspiracy to cover up dissent and present a scientific consensus on climate change.

Futurismic’s Tom Marcinko does a great job of putting this in context, rounding up several links to other good commentators around the web. In a nutshell: science is about the advancement of competing theories and the evaluation of these theories in light of evidence. The East Anglia Climate Research Unit’s scientists disagreed in some particulars, and used peer-review to resolve them (and continue to do so).



Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:53 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
Fisty believes this! Fisty believes that!

Fisty believes in science ...

...Remember... it takes faith to believe in Global Warming. 8)



It takes faith to "believe in" anything. Your complete inability to grasp basic semantics is hilarious.

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Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
thosquanta wrote:
Ether wrote:
I personally believe


always a valuable scientific tool.



Sorry, that must have come across wrong. What I was trying to say is the scientific angle I subscribe to is the one I mentioned... you know... the one about the earth warming and cooling in a cyclic fashion over vast stretches of time. I didn't mean to present my view on the topic as a 'hunch' or something... there is actually tons of hard science that supports what I am talking about (ice core and soil samples, for instance)

Secondly, I think it's sort of bogus for certain people on this board to go around telling us what Fisty believes. Fisty can speak for Fisty's self and I don't see a need to put words in anyone's mouth. If you are wondering what Fisty thinks, perhaps you could ask Fisty. Then Fisty can tell you what Fisty thinks.

Lastly, using stuff up until Jesus comes back is a bad philisophy - even IF you believe in that sort of thing. It's already taken Jesus over 2000 years to come back and he hasn't, so evidently there is no rush. Look how much damage we've done in the time since he died! He might take another 2000 years for all we know- by which time we will have screwed up our surroundings big time.

regards,

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Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:53 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Jesus is waiting for things to warm up a lil' more before he returns.

He's Mexican, you know.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:06 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
zom-zom wrote:
A science of convenience.


Global warming sure is.
Climategate has got Ed Begley jr in a tizzy!

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bigho ... ore-268302


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWmbuKSWLDE&feature

:lol:


Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Image


Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
Climategate has got Ed Begley jr in a tizzy!
Ed who? And why should anyone give a shit?

Really, you need to start explaining these links of yours.

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Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Former drummer in Spinal Tap. Now a Hollywood "climate specialist"

cmon... get with the program!

Looks like this scandal is having world wide ramifications:
Climategate: five Aussie MPs lead the way by resigning in disgust over carbon tax

Even some on the left are disgusted to see science politicized.


Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
Former drummer in Spinal Tap. Now a Hollywood "climate specialist"



This just goes to show that Fisty doesn't do even simple research
Everyone knows that being a "former" Spinal tap drummer means that you are dead
Are you saying that zombies are climate specialists?
Did Glenn Beck tell you that?

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Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
Former drummer in Spinal Tap. Now a Hollywood "climate specialist"
Ok, you're halfway there. Now, for the second part of my question - why should anyone give a shit about what he thinks?

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Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:16 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Bingo, why should any one care about what those Hollywood clods think. Matt Damon, Decaprio ect...
It's just fun to see those self appointed messiah's look like fools.

This is great, like ACORN: the lid is blown off.

It's a Game changer.


Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:24 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
Bingo, why should any one care about what those Hollywood clods think. Matt Damon, Decaprio ect...
It's just fun to see those self appointed messiah's look like fools.

Hm. You must be hard up for entertainment...

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Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:34 am
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Post Re: Climategate
I love how even the Conservatives wish Fisty wasn't one of their own. The ratio of nutjobs versus intelligently educated individuals when it comes to Conservatism always seems firmly rooted in the wacko contingent.


Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:49 am
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Post Re: Climategate
Those wacko conservitives w/ their nutty facts! 8)

Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation
Quote:
The second and most shocking revelation of the leaked documents is how they show the scientists trying to manipulate data through their tortuous computer programmes, always to point in only the one desired direction – to lower past temperatures and to "adjust" recent temperatures upwards, in order to convey the impression of an accelerated warming. This comes up so often (not least in the documents relating to computer data in the Harry Read Me file) that it becomes the most disturbing single element of the entire story. This is what Mr McIntyre caught Dr Hansen doing with his GISS temperature record last year (after which Hansen was forced to revise his record), and two further shocking examples have now come to light from Australia and New Zealand.

In each of these countries it has been possible for local scientists to compare the official temperature record with the original data on which it was supposedly based. In each case it is clear that the same trick has been played – to turn an essentially flat temperature chart into a graph which shows temperatures steadily rising. And in each case this manipulation was carried out under the influence of the CRU.

What is tragically evident from the Harry Read Me file is the picture it gives of the CRU scientists hopelessly at sea with the complex computer programmes they had devised to contort their data in the approved direction, more than once expressing their own desperation at how difficult it was to get the desired results.


Read it all:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... ation.html


Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
"long accepted Medieaval warm period".

LOL. this guy is full of shit.

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Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
i don't think he knows what science is.

i've met the guy, but, as someone once employed as a scientist, i'm concerned that he may not think i exist.

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Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:22 pm
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they're discussing this on the newest ep of SGU, FYI.

a great podcast.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/

its like a point by point on how stupid fisty's conclusion is.

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Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
As expected, the Climategate scandal is growing:

Quote:
Penn State Will Investigate 'Climategate'
November 30, 2009 02:40 PM ET | Jeff Greer | Permanent Link | Print
Among other things, the Watergate scandal of the 1970s gave us a great naming convention for future scandals. Take "Climategate" at Penn State. That's what people are calling the controversy surrounding leaked E-mails among climate change researchers that climate change opponents say expose the researchers' falsification of data. One Penn State professor is involved in the scandal.

The Penn State administration plans to investigate Climategate and determine if it needs to take further action, the Daily Collegian reports. A little more than a week ago, E-mails exchanged among an English university's climate change researchers were illegally obtained from a server and posted online, the report says.

Climate change opponents say the E-mails indicate that climate change researchers—including Penn State Prof. Michael Mann—exaggerated or fabricated global warming data. And, according to the report, some E-mails indicate that the director of the research unit in question may have contacted researchers and asked them to "delete certain E-mails."


It will be sweet when Gore is behind bars!


Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:31 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
aaaaaand you could actually check the link i put up and see how full of shit that argument is.

but you won't.

you know, i have no problem with ignorance, there are a myriad of things i do not and never will know, but WILLFUL ignorance, this desire to deliberately stay stupid in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence is just reprehensible.

in other news, hey fisty, i've got these magnetic bracelets i can sell you for like $200 each. they totally prove that there is no climate change and never has been!

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Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:42 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
I did, all I saw was Tom Cruise's face & mumbo jumbo.

I've been researching the whole Global warming thing from '93 on. Yes, there is "climate change" but is it man made? Who knows, prolly not.
Either I am ignorant or you are a chump I guess.

If you are right, I got dibbs on Giedi Prime!


Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:23 am
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
I
I've been researching the whole Global warming thing from '93 on.


Reading Breitbart and listening to Rush LImbaugh is not "research". :lol:


Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:24 am
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Post Re: Climategate
his "research" explains all these links to peer-reviewed scientific journals he posts.

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Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:05 am
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Post Re: Climategate
2fisted wrote:
I did, all I saw was Tom Cruise's face & mumbo jumbo.


since actually reading the front page appears to be too difficult for you:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsg ... -11-25.mp3

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Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:12 am
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Post Re: Climategate
This attempted white wash proves nothing, just a Climate Warming chicken little saying that the "deniers" are crazy. If you have FAITH in GW he makes sense. He may as well be talking about God.

Cute bunch!

I wonder how many carbon credits they have invested in?

Lots of $ to be made off of Global warming doom, lots of weath distribution that will screw the USA big time:

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/national/88- ... fraud.html


Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Quote:
A scientist who is one of the central figures in the controversy over hacked e-mails from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit announced Tuesday that he is stepping down while the university investigates the incident.


But why? If he did nothing wrong? Lets see all the research & "source code" of these climate computing programs.


Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
was that english?

yeeesh.

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Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
devil wrote:
The ratio of nutjobs versus intelligently educated individuals when it comes to Conservatism always seems firmly rooted in the wacko contingent.


Actually I've found that most people fall into the wacko category regardless of conservative vs. liberal leanings. There seems to be an equal number on both sides to me.

Of course it is also true that ME calling other people 'wacko' is very pot/kettle.

~€~

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Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:49 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
and this week on SGU, they discuss the false dichotomy fallacy that fisty loves so gosh darned much.

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Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:49 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
:lol:

How are we all enjoying this weeks "Global Warming"? Anyone else having probs starting their car?!

Actualy Thos, they are discussing how the $ is going to be divided after the US taxpayer is soaked:

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climat ... eting.html

I doubt they are talking about how the Mob is getting in on the game:

http://www.climategate.com/organized-cr ... police-say


The climate gods are angry!!

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Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:22 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
i love your arguments.

hey, all, i have a job, so CLEARLY theres no unemployment problem!!! must be lefty trying to make a buck!


now if i just went back and misspelled and shifted tense a few times, i could be the new fisty!

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Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:20 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
thosquanta wrote:
now if i just went back and misspelled and shifted tense a few times, i could be the new fisty!
Without even embedding a questionably-relevant image?! Pshaw, poser!


Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:37 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
thosquanta wrote:
i love your arguments.


I am simply pointing out that the planet is cooling, not warming.

But in copenhagen, the last thing they want is an argument.

Code:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtzMBfDrpI&feature


Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:02 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
actually, its WARMER today than yesterday. and ITS WINTERD


clearly, GLOBAL WARMING IS REEL!




(insert image of....... dunno......like a fishing reel thing?_

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**MODERATOR NOTE: By request of Dan Lacey, the copyright holder of this image, please see this article on the image in question: http://www.citypages.com/2009-04-29/new ... ond-gawker


Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:01 am
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Post Re: Climategate
thosquanta wrote:
actually, its WARMER today than yesterday. and ITS WINTERD
clearly, GLOBAL WARMING IS REEL!


Ha! I see you got the Algore memo! :lol:

He was telling conan the earths core was “several million degrees” the other night, no wonder Bush beat him! :lol:

Code:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns_4pzfOSTc&feature


Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:36 am
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Fisty's Dark Twin Cities


Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:37 am
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:lol: Very nice Z, The I like new DTC look!


Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:01 pm
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Post Re: Climategate
Backing up of Fisty ain't why I don't post here no more. All of your politics suck ass! Fisty's non sequiter posts aside, Zom's long UNATTRIBUTED quote is equally idiotic. You accuse Fisty of getting HIS news from such and such, but where do YOU get YOUR news? How come you NEVER refute even Fisty's strange arguments? Instead its just moronic attacks masquerading as a 'thoughtful' reply or you use someone else's arguments in place of your own. I respect Devil, Ether -- even Drok and Thossy too much to get into a throw-down here on this lonely board. And, well, all of your politics SUCK and I don't have time to argue with

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Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:40 am
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Yeah, but your politics suck too. I mean, they really suck. And that's usually all you have to say. No salient points, no backing up arguments, just "your politics suck."

You Cons make it so easy.


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