Bullshit. You're dead wrong. The people who want to hear it don't go out because you have to listen to 3 hours of futurepop and other shittastic electro-flavor-of-the-week to hear one or two decent songs. I know there's good new stuff- It's not getting played in any variety. I think I've only heard a half dozen tracks that interested me enough to find out more about the artists.

I'm not just speaking for myself here; the OBCT show was pretty well attended, and I think I only recognized a handful of people from the clubs. And I talked to people, and you know what?

THEY WANT TO HEAR THE OLD SCHOOL STUFF


Also:

Transmission. Duh.

Quite frankly, most people's familiarity with "old school stuff" always dissapoints me. I have a fair collection of records from Wax Trax and Antler Subway -- I enjoy listening to them at home. But very few people actually know nor care about various obscure industrical acts of the 80s. Often times "old stuff" means listening to the same 50 tracks on repeat. I guarantee you can clear a dance floor by playing Cabaret Voltaire or some Klinik.

The only city I've been to that has an "old school" night is chicago. There's plenty of people there mostly consisting of metalheads and really old people.

(on that note: off to the Throbbing Gristle show)

Does the music on the patio (or whatever it is when it is a covered room) have to be dance oriented?
What about music that is just cool background for conversation? (especially at a volume that doesn't interfere with conversation)
I have refrained from commenting on the music because ALL dance oriented music bores me for the most part, therefore my opinion is not valid
It would be nice to hang out in a room where you could hear all kinds of cool music no matter what genre
I'm throwing in my name for consideration
I can do an entire evening of music and keep it rotating
My weakness is that I cannot DJ/Beat match for a dance floor
Plus, I've got a video projector now and can mix music video too
I'll be there in June and would love the opportunity
Just don't call me DeeJay Rockula!

Seeing as how this thread is about Hard Mondays and kind of mutated into incorporating other club dance nights my comments were in reference to these specific locations. Transmission isn't what I'd call a "dance night." Yeah, sometimes people will dance to the stuff in the tiny space provided but most just go to hang around with the crowd while great, kitschy music is being spun in the background. Jake's great at what he does but when it comes to clubs like GZ and HM@ The Saloon their niche is more appropriately cutting edge stuff with occasional nods to the classics. And the conversation did eventually lean toward how not every club should be doing the same thing. Let Transmission stick with the oldies and the other clubs find their way through the future. Maybe one of the three other spots (HM/GZ/Chamber) will eventually latch on to a stuck in the past mentality, or HM will alternate Harder Mondays with Hardly Relevant Anymore Retro Mondays, or something.

I love the classics. And I occasionally spin them at home even though I've already listened to them thousands of times. But when I go out I'm more interested in the exciting and new. I'd rather be introduced to something that can expand my horizons and perspectives than be reminded of how I felt when I was in my teens and twenties.

you're in a minority on that one. New, cutting edge stuff won't keep people at a club. For better or worse, people who go out to dance typically want to dance to stuff they know, or stuff that's completely predictable. Talk to Rosa some time, about why she and her old roommate quit going out to the club nights here. Between the people and the music, they got completely fed up. Albuquerque has 3 club nights a week, and they're all packed. One of the biggest differences? House DJs only spin in their "home" clubs a couple of times a month, not 3 sets every week.

This isn't unique to the Goth/Industrial scene. Look at other successful club nights from other genres, and look what works for them. Lots of DJs, different variations on the genre music, (Reggae, Ragga, Rock Steady, Dub), a lot of support from the clubs (drink specials and other amenities), contests, marketing, and a real sense of identity from the promoters. Stack that up against what we have going on right now, and then add a crappy employment situation.

If I were still involved with a club, I'd be booking *gasp* cover bands to get asses in the doors right now. If no one is going out to see original bands, and right now, they're not, then it's time for a change of tactics. I'd have some of the better original bands open for cover band headliners. It's crappy, but it's better than nothing.

LTFOL

Wow, all those people used to go clubbing a lot, but quit because they played too much new stuff? Yeah, right.

If you're talking about people who go out to a dance club once every three years --
first of all, when they say "old school" they mean "yeah, I'm nostalgic for that fun night I had (in 2006) and wanna hear that music again" --
and second of all, NOBODY GIVES A SH1T what the people who go to a dance club once every three years want to hear! Irrelevant demographic, anyone?

If these people had actually BEEN to a club (in 2007, 2008, or 2009 I mean), they would know that they're ALREADY playing "old school". Panic closed the night last week with "Jesus Built My Hotrod" ferchrissakes.


But wait! The absurd hilarity doesn't stop there!
WTF, could you possibly contradict yourself MORE in one paragraph???

You're saying that people want to dance to the same old familiar songs week after week, so the successful club nights are the ones with rotating random guest DJs... who... what?... all play the SAME old familiar songs? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

If there's some kind of POINT you were trying to make, you're gonna have to clarify it.

I don't think that people only want to hear old stuff, I think they want to hear some more of it. And since that's roughly 80 trillion songs, everything from Neubaten to VNV to Joy Division to The Misfits to Nizer Ebb to 242 to well, everything, having multiple DJs provides some diversity to the evening. That would apply to the new stuff as well. Again, look at other genre club nights; multiple DJs representing multiple facets of the genre.

I'm not trying to make an argument for this being somehow "right". I listen to tons of music, a lot of new stuff, too. I'm just trying to point out what works for other clubs and DJs. You know, trying to make some suggestions.

I could write another paragraph on the people I talked to on Sat night, but I would like to point out that we were in a club when it happened, so your whole "these are people who don't go out" doesn't make any sense. They go out, just not to GZ or HM.

The multiple DJs idea seems to be a good suggestion. The open DJ nights I've attended have been especially fun because every person that spins brings with them their own taste and style and it mixes things up enough to keep the entire night interesting.

It's like he difference between seeing a show where a single band plays a two-three hour set and a concert featuring four bands. There's more variety and excitement with the latter.

I think it's a pretty good idea too. Fridays we usually have 3-5 DJ's, I don't see why we can't start bringing in more on Mondays.

Unfortunately, like I said earlier, I don't think Music makes all that big of a difference attendance wise.

Craig- thanks for not taking this personally. If you do bring in more DJs for Mondays, I would also suggest not getting the ones who spin on Fridays. I don't know what your options are as far as DJs, but I would guess that if it was Friday night, except on Monday at the Saloon, your attendance won't improve all that much. Hell, I'd be falling over myself to get Devil and Petey to spin, among others.

I know it's not personal, no worries. I certainly wouldn't get any of the techno/house/trance type DJ's that play on Fridays.

Well, again, I think attendance relies heavily on marketing/advertising. And a little ad in City pages isn't the big step that needs to be taken. Radio, college campuses; these are the places you need to utilize to get the word out. And once you draw people in through these means you have to prove you're a good time or they won't be back. So everything mentioned here is relevant.

Having the same thing week after week ain't gonna work. If you need to come up with 4 different themes for the 4 weeks in a month so be it (bearing in mind a few months actually have 5 weeks).

None of this is supposed to be easy. And considering how clubs come and go in this town or any other the fact that we're still even speaking about clubs like GZ or nights like HM a decade to a decade and a half later is miraculous. The shelf life for this sort of thing is significantly less.

Heh. Marketing I get. Advertising is may as well be voodoo. One of my friends recently told me (and he may have been quoting) "90% of advertising money is a complete waste, and most execs know it. They just don't know which 90%". I know that's not particularly helpful, but I thought it was relevant. If your budget is limited, which advertising route do you take?

Advertising I do get, and we actually have taken steps in the last few months to get the word out more.

well, since I am brutally and tragically unemployed, let me know if I can help out.

Thanks for the offer. What we've been doing so far is some facebook and myspace advertising. The main thing I need at this point is financial help since these initiative's aren't free (although they are pretty efficient.) I'm working the club over to get some more help in this area.

We've also been doing more flyers, I may look for flyer monkey help in the future.

Anything happening tonight??

Me too!!! Unemplyed & help promoting.

Tonight I have the early shift: 10 - 1, DJO2 has the late shift 11-2, otherwise business as usual.

Great night last night, good crowd and great dancefloor. Thanks to everyone who came.

Going downtown to spot Rockula.

Hmmm. Someone better start an Electro-something thread, since he's back, too. I wanna watch Drok, Devil and Rockula argue music until *I* puke.

I was going to go tonight but my friend Marko needed me to help him get ready for his wedding
I hope to make it out next week though

Are you fucking kidding me? DJ Purple flew halfway across the country to serenade us with fucking Du Hast TWICE in the same weekend? Fucking seriously? Jesus H Christ in repeat mode.

Does Homeland Security have a 3-ounce liquid/gel AND a 3-CD limit on lugguge during "Eternal Orange" alert status?? Now I feel bad for ever having razzed our local DJs for being lazy and unoriginal.

For the benefit of people who weren't aware of it, Rammstein released a few OTHER songs that AREN'T Du Fucking Hast. For example, there's Spiel Mit Mir, a growly downtempo number on the same album. Or if you want to get really adventurous and invest in an additional CD, I might suggest Herzeleid's title track, along with Du Riechst So Gut, Heirate Mich, or Laichzeit. Hell, maybe they've released three more full albums AFTER 1997. Personally, I kinda lost interest in them, but you might wanna look into that if playing CD's is like, a sort of hobbyish career, or at least something you do in public.

Fuckity fucking fuck, for fuck's sake!

I've always liked "Sehnsucht", it's a great way to start an album.

Have an opinion already, Rob!

This made me laugh...

I've met many residents of teh MA scene, and they've all told me that club nights are highly random and you have to travel all over New England.

But I was always under the impression that there should be a "please do not play list" as opposed to a "request list."

Or you could just bypass Rammstein alltogether and listen to the real thing instead
LAIBACH!

Ummh... what do those bands have in common? Why would you even correlate them. This is not a moment of eSarcasm, I seriously don't understand why they'd be associated in any way shape or form.

tongue-in-cheek overblown pretense?

(i'm not knockin it, thats why i like laibach)

When I heard her play that I winced pretty hard. I knew a rant was coming from you. (there were a couple other songs she did twice if you caught them)

It's not tongue-in-cheek. One of the main points for Laibach was not to be ironic.

so they were pro-fascist?

Nope, I was GONE before the first chorus. The stuff she spun before Du Hast was unfamiliar, but not good either. Things were just starting to pick up a bit with a decent synthpop tune I hadn't heard, but then she crushed my enthusiasm, stamped out my glimmer of optimism, and peed all over my birthday cake of hope.

I won't whine about the technical issues; I'll take devil's word for it that the equipment setup at Saloon sucks -- plus she did a really great job with the transitions and beatmatching for Friday's set @GZ. But c'mon, that's only HALF a DJ's job.

I'm so glad you asked! Short answer -- kind of. Long answer -- it's the wrong question. There's plenty written on the subject. Or you could just watch Laibach - Predictions of Fire

I recall a conversation I had in another city, where I was told proper etiquette, for every time Das Ich's "Destillat" (vnv nation mix) was played, was to politely and quietly leave and not return to the club for a month.

(but it is impressive that she managed to handle that dj booth, as it's impossible to monitor anything)

no youtube at work, but i'll check it out, thanks!

I figured you bolted right away. Well, thanks for trying to stick it out.

Yes the Saloon's set up is pretty rough, and it's very hard to hear anything.

I'm just saying that Rammstein pretty much took Laibach and Nu-Metaled it up
Kinda like when Manson was blatantly ripping off Alice Cooper and Bowie
Same with Type-O
At least they wink at you when they blatantly rip something off

As far as Laibach being fascists, I have several albums and a collection of vids and propoganda
It seemed to me to be a put on
My friend talked to them at a club once (I was outside and didn't have the money) and he asked them about the rumors of endorsement by the national front
He replied that some of the band were Jewish but didn't mind fascists paying to see them and buying their records

I was going to watch the link but it is late and it is too long
Maybe tomorrow

I'm still not clear on what their music has in common, aside from the fact that they both sing in German.

There's no contradiction in terms of being Jewish and being fascist -- no problems there.

Are you serious?
The vocals are the largest indicator of style rip-off-ness
The first time I heard Rammstein I thought to myself "Oh no, Laibach's finally given up art and gone NuMetal"
They're about as different from Laibach as Savage Aural Hotbed is from early Neubauten
I'm not sayin Rammstein sucks, they're just not as, how you say, artistically grounded

Laibach's "Alle Gegen Alle"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1iGfd6dLpk

Maybe not the EXACT same style but pretty friggin' similar

Rammstein "Amerika"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY

Their logos are even the same cross with gears around it(I tried to post links but I had trouble and don't feel like doing it again, look them up and I am sure you will agree)

Last time I saw anyone blatantly rip off someone else was this
http://www.nuzzaci.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/manson-7.jpg

http://www.floydian.de/images/discographie/hammers.jpg

Does this mean you don't want to hear my 12 minute remix of Du Hast???

I can always play it on my show.

Listening to these clips I can see the similarity, though that Rammstein's guys voice changed quite a bit from the first album. But simply put that's just how german sounds when growelled. It can also be noted that Milan has an absurd vocal range, and uses very different timbers on different Laibach albums.

I also don't recall that Rammstein logo, being present form the beginning -- but I might be wrong.

It can also be pointed out that it's kind of silly for a german band to channel the teutonic, by emulating a Slovenian band evoking the teutonic.

Rammstein is a silly derivative of Laibach (among other) style industrial, dumbed down to the point where it's just generic shitty pop music. Rammstein is to Laibach what Christina Aguilera is to Madonna.

Don't tell that to Blixa

Fair night tonight, slow start good finish. The two new Rotersand songs I played went over like gang busters which is really cool since I had never played either one before.



Hard Monday 8.24.09

Nitrogen, Noise

Nitrogen
Suicide Commando - Until We Die
Hex RX - Shreds (NXV Mix)
Zen-Kei - The Punisher
Darkpunk - Fucker Bass
Sidekick - Deepfear (Andrea Roma Mix)
Zen-Kei - The Blast (Kubic Mix)
Tiga - Mind Dimension 2
Justice - Pt 2 (Boys Noize Mix)
Wehbba - Xcelir8 (Propulse Mix)
Micha Moor - Space (Klaas Mix)
(R) New Order - Blue Monday

noise
The Clash - Rock the Casbah (white label)
The Cure - The Walk (infusion mix)
Tears for Fears vs. Dirty Vegas - Dirty Shout Vegas
Shaun F - Drty Fckn Dsko
Rotersand - Would You Spin This (re:clubbed with Natalie de Borah)
Grendel - Hate This (Northborne remix)
Imperative Reaction - Flatline
Northborne - Abstinence
4Kuba - Contact
Alien Vampires - To Die Without U

Nitrogen, noise
(R) Thoushaltnot - True Love
Clan of Xymox - Jasmine and Rose
Depeche Mode - In Sympathy
Bud and Stone vs Muse - Supermassive Blackhole
The Knife - Silent Shout
Royksopp - The Girl and the Robot (Ocelot remix)
(R) FLA - Mindphaser
Project Pitchfork - Timekiller (Project Pitchfork remix)
Rotersand - Bastards Screaming (On and On)
Faderhead - TZDV
Bruderschaft - Return (Imperative Reaction Mix)
Juilan The Angel - Sweet Child Of Mine 2009 (Julian the Angel & Danny Grooving remix)
Landmark - Smells Like Teen Spirit
BLur - Song2 (Prydz Mix)
Far Too Loud - All is Machine
Fukkk Off - Love Me hate Me Kiss Me Kill Me
Scandy - Touch it
Combi - Give Head If You Got It
Icon of Coil - Headhunter
Covenant - Dead Stars (version 2)
VNV - Solitary (signals version)
(R) And One - Military Fashion Show
Assemblage 23 - Let the Wind Erase Me
Angels on Acid - Misery Loves Company
Rotersand - War On Error (Declaration)
Faderhead - Dirtygrrls Dirtybois
David Gahan - Kingdom (Digitalism remix)
(R) Digitalism - Taken Away (MMMathias remix)
(R) Grendel - Zombie Nation 2005
(R) Icon of Coil - Shelter (Soman mix)
Infected Mushroom - Smashing the Opponent
(R) A Perfect Circle vs. noise - Counting Bodies Like Breaks
(R) Combichrist - Today We Are All Demons
David Bowie - Cactus
(R) Rammstein - Keine Lust (Black Stobe Mix)

darkshade and company make a Hard Mondays appearance tonight.

Come on down.

Is Hard Monday's going to happen tomorrow? Or is it getting bumped?

New Drink Special every week:

Hard Monday presents "Kill The Keg" special: Every Monday enjoy $1 16oz Tap Beers, $2 Rolling Rocks, $2 Premiums and $3 jag shots!

Bump for great drink special

Thank you to DJ Skw33k and dv8 for playing with us, it was a fun night (despite some frustrating difficulties with the sound early in the evening)

Hard Monday 12-28-09

Nitrogen, noise, dv8, Skw33k

n&N
The Roots and BT - Tao of the Machine
Bad Boyz - Break the Noize (Megatron mix)
Chromeo - Mercury Tears
New Young Pony Club - The Bomb (The Teenagers Lou Crush remix)
Schwarzblut - Muse Es Eine Trennung Geben
Rotersand - Bastards Screaming (on and on)
C/A/T - Shoot to Kill (reloaded)
Sleetgrout - Rotten Reverie (The Synthetic Dream Foundation mix)
Faderhead - Gritty Beats No Relief
The Presets - Are You The One (club edit)
(R) FLA - Obession
Reaper - Totengraber (club edit)
(R) Seabound - Poisonous Friend
AoA - Misery Loves Company
The Synthetic Dream Foundation - Blood Divine

Skw33k
Rotersand - All in All
Covenant - Pulse
Neuroticfish - Black Again
Project Pitchfork - Steelrose (Apop mix)
A23 - Angels and Demons
Apop - Starsign
VNV - Lightwave
Depeche Mode - Suffer Well
The Faint - The conductor (Thin White Duke)
Ladytron - Weekend (James Iha remix)
Goldfrapp - Strict machine
Royksopp - What else is there? (Trentemoeller remix)
Voltaire - Happy Birthday
Bauhaus - Bela Lugosi's Dead

dv8
(R) The Cure - Lullaby (remix)
(R) Sisters of Mercy - More
(R) The Church - Under the Milky Way Tonight
(R) Tool - The Pot
(R) Wumpscut - War
(R) Memmaker - Sneaking Through the Totalian Filter
Phosgore - Red Red Krovvy (Xotox mix)
Statik Sky - Truth and Freedom (SAM mix)
Alter Der Ruin - Duck & Cover
Grendel - Shortwire (Synthetic Dream Foundation mix)
Icon of Coil - Transfer Complete
Decoded Feedback - Phoenix

n&N
Rabbit in the Moon - Let's Dance
Synthetic Dream Foundation - Eine Dunkle Spharische Widerstand
(R) Goldenboy w/ Miss Kittin - Rippin Kittin
The Faint - I Disapear
Royksopp - This Must Be It (Thin White Duke remix)
Delerium - Silence (Niels van Gogh vs. Thomas Gold remix)
Combichrist - Give Head if You Got It
DJ Pet - I am not your Whore megamix
The Prodigy - Take Me to the Hospital (Adam F & Horx remix)
(R) Komor Kommando - Das Oontz
(R) Iio - Rapture '07
(R) VNV - Chrome
Infected Mushroom - Cities of the Future (Violet Vision remix)
Wolfsheim - Approching Lightspeed

The drink specials are a step in the right direction.

If there's one thing to note about people in our genre, it's this: we're all very opinionated... and not just about music. I'll admit, I'm easily turned-off by a club that only caters to people who want to drink nothing more than cosmos and light beer from Milwaukee. How about a little variety? The Saloon did good by bringing in Newcastle in bottles... but it's pretty much the ONLY dark beer choice.

I'm glad Hard Mondays has survived as well as it has. The Saloon is a good fit, both in size and layout. (Multiple rooms is nice.) It's a good atmosphere, the sound and lighting are excellent, the prices are reasonable, and the staff is reliable, and the management is accommodating. I'm continually impressed with the DJs, regular or otherwise.

My only real complaint is that I can't attend more often.

I think the hardest part about dark beer at the Saloon is I don't think it's in much demand from their normal clientele

True. I was just musing at what things would cater well to our community, if you were specifically marketing to us. But with such a low demand for our kind of club in the Twin Cities, I think Hard Mondays is about as good as anybody could expect.

Club Jaeger has a great drink selection, but that's because they're a smaller venue and geared towards quality. The Saloon has the kind of space and layout we can appreciate, but is geared towards QUANTITY... thus, the Milwaukee beer. It's a fair trade off. I can go without drink most nights, but sometimes I'm in the mood for a specific atmosphere, and Hard Mondays fits the bill.

On street parking makes this beer taste better.

Looking back at this thread I think the club scene has taken a major change for the better since the discussion took place at the top of the previous page (and similar discussions that have happened through out the years on this and other boards.)

I was thinking about this the other day and spoke to Rob about it last night. I think our club scene here is better and more diverse then it's ever been in this city. (And most other cities to be honest.)

Mondays have changed: We now have Harder Mondays every 2nd Monday of the month for people who like newer stoppier harder music. We have Darker Mondays every 4th Monday for people who like Goth music. We've also been bringing in more guests.

Chamber has a mix of 4 DJ's who each have their own style and flavor and they frequently have guests.

Fridays at GZ we have open DJ night at least every other month, if not monthly (not that many take advantage of this)

Bondage a Go Go now features a rotation of 6 different DJ's all of whom are different in some way or another - each Saturday we have 3 of the six spin, so no two Saturdays will sound exactly alike.

I had a long talk with the guest DJ we had last Saturday at BaGG who has residencies in San Diego and LA and he was really impressed with our scene. He was shocked by the amount of new music we can get away with playing here - at the clubs he spins at he has a really hard time getting anyone to dance to anything newer then 10 years old.

Kind of cool stuff.

Bumping long-lost (fell off the first page) threads for regular nights that are known to still be active.

Plus a reminder that:
* The 2nd Monday of the month is "Harder Monday", with bondage demos and crunchier industrial music.
* The 4th Monday of the month is "Darker Monday", which leans more toward goth, old-school, and occasional apocalyptic folk music.